Comments on: My Problem With Pagan Christianity: Book Review http://www.modernekklesia.com/2009/02/my-problem-with-pagan-christianity-book-review.html Some thoughts on the intersection of church, leadership, and technology. Wed, 08 Feb 2012 22:08:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Nolan Morgan http://www.modernekklesia.com/2009/02/my-problem-with-pagan-christianity-book-review.html/comment-page-1#comment-11838 Nolan Morgan Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.modernekklesia.com/2009/02/05/my-problem-with-pagan-christianity-book-review/#comment-11838 EXACTLY! thank you Otto... The book was not read, nor was the sequel Reimagining Church. This book series threatens people, so they call it something it is not. EXACTLY! thank you Otto… The book was not read, nor was the sequel Reimagining Church. This book series threatens people, so they call it something it is not.

]]> By: Nolan Morgan http://www.modernekklesia.com/2009/02/my-problem-with-pagan-christianity-book-review.html/comment-page-1#comment-11837 Nolan Morgan Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.modernekklesia.com/2009/02/05/my-problem-with-pagan-christianity-book-review/#comment-11837 Robert. Your points here are laughable to me. If you read any of his stuff you will see he has a better grasp on the word pastor, elder etc than the institutional church does. He even in his writings explains that one of his main convictions is that he wants Christ building the church like scripture says, not man building it like the current church organization does. Did you know the word pastors is used one time in the new testament? yet look at what the pastor does in the church? Really? That seems balanced. A complete institution built around one verse? Please. you should try reading his blogs... http://frankviola.org/ It's really really good bud... Robert. Your points here are laughable to me. If you read any of his stuff you will see he has a better grasp on the word pastor, elder etc than the institutional church does. He even in his writings explains that one of his main convictions is that he wants Christ building the church like scripture says, not man building it like the current church organization does. Did you know the word pastors is used one time in the new testament? yet look at what the pastor does in the church? Really? That seems balanced. A complete institution built around one verse? Please. you should try reading his blogs… http://frankviola.org/
It’s really really good bud…

]]> By: Nolan Morgan http://www.modernekklesia.com/2009/02/my-problem-with-pagan-christianity-book-review.html/comment-page-1#comment-11835 Nolan Morgan Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.modernekklesia.com/2009/02/05/my-problem-with-pagan-christianity-book-review/#comment-11835 He adresses throwing the baby out with the bath water argument in his book and on his site. He adresses throwing the baby out with the bath water argument in his book and on his site.

]]> By: Rich Sullivan http://www.modernekklesia.com/2009/02/my-problem-with-pagan-christianity-book-review.html/comment-page-1#comment-7664 Rich Sullivan Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.modernekklesia.com/2009/02/05/my-problem-with-pagan-christianity-book-review/#comment-7664 In defense of home meetings, many in institutional churches believe that the house church movement is a cult, invalid, and not a genuine assembly of believers because they have no building and no tax-exempt status (recognition by the gov't as legitimate). The only way they see house churches as valid is that the assembly is going to buy land and/or a building at some time in the future & apply for tax-exempt status. The amazing thing I see in the house church movement is that many different expressions of faith (charismatic, Baptist, Calvinist, etc.) are actually practicing & advocating the biblical practice of house churches. I think that in itself is a miracle! In defense of home meetings, many in institutional churches believe that the house church movement is a cult, invalid, and not a genuine assembly of believers because they have no building and no tax-exempt status (recognition by the gov’t as legitimate). The only way they see house churches as valid is that the assembly is going to buy land and/or a building at some time in the future & apply for tax-exempt status. The amazing thing I see in the house church movement is that many different expressions of faith (charismatic, Baptist, Calvinist, etc.) are actually practicing & advocating the biblical practice of house churches. I think that in itself is a miracle!

]]> By: Rodlie Ortiz http://www.modernekklesia.com/2009/02/my-problem-with-pagan-christianity-book-review.html/comment-page-1#comment-7613 Rodlie Ortiz Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.modernekklesia.com/2009/02/05/my-problem-with-pagan-christianity-book-review/#comment-7613 It's ok to stumble upon here on purpose as well ;) Rich, I think those are some good points and I agree with you. I don't think this leaderless concept is found in the Bible. And, yes, far too much money is spent on building upkeep. Thanks for the comment! It’s ok to stumble upon here on purpose as well ;)

Rich, I think those are some good points and I agree with you. I don’t think this leaderless concept is found in the Bible. And, yes, far too much money is spent on building upkeep. Thanks for the comment!

]]> By: Rich Sullivan http://www.modernekklesia.com/2009/02/my-problem-with-pagan-christianity-book-review.html/comment-page-1#comment-7604 Rich Sullivan Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.modernekklesia.com/2009/02/05/my-problem-with-pagan-christianity-book-review/#comment-7604 I recently stumbled across this discussion by accident. I've read many of Viola's books and have mixed feelings. I agree with some of the ideas he puts forth with regards to the pagan influences (just look at the origins of Christmas/Easter for instance). The one thing that troubles me is that many push for a leaderless assembly and keep citing the Corinthian church as its example. The problem with that is the church at Corinth was a "new" church and no leaders had emerged to due its immaturity. Now read Paul's later writings especially to Titus & Timothy. You can see more maturity and leadership had emerged. Yes, there were elders leading by example in the early church but this idea of leaderless churches or the leaders were somehow hidden or not at the forefront teaching these assemblies is not true. I believe whole-heartedly that this is a knee-jerk reaction to abusive leadership in the institutional church especially among charismatics. I have seen first hand a very rebellious spirit with regards to leadership predominantly with charismatics so this tendency to have "leaderless" churches appeals to a many fed up with the abuses of clergy. The only problem is that it is not biblical. I personally believe that a great deal of money is wasted in the care and maintenance of a building. I do advocate a simple assembly principle as found in the early church but with teaching to exhort and encourage. I recently stumbled across this discussion by accident. I’ve read many of Viola’s books and have mixed feelings. I agree with some of the ideas he puts forth with regards to the pagan influences (just look at the origins of Christmas/Easter for instance). The one thing that troubles me is that many push for a leaderless assembly and keep citing the Corinthian church as its example. The problem with that is the church at Corinth was a “new” church and no leaders had emerged to due its immaturity. Now read Paul’s later writings especially to Titus & Timothy. You can see more maturity and leadership had emerged. Yes, there were elders leading by example in the early church but this idea of leaderless churches or the leaders were somehow hidden or not at the forefront teaching these assemblies is not true. I believe whole-heartedly that this is a knee-jerk reaction to abusive leadership in the institutional church especially among charismatics. I have seen first hand a very rebellious spirit with regards to leadership predominantly with charismatics so this tendency to have “leaderless” churches appeals to a many fed up with the abuses of clergy. The only problem is that it is not biblical.

I personally believe that a great deal of money is wasted in the care and maintenance of a building. I do advocate a simple assembly principle as found in the early church but with teaching to exhort and encourage.

]]> By: Rodlie Ortiz http://www.modernekklesia.com/2009/02/my-problem-with-pagan-christianity-book-review.html/comment-page-1#comment-3474 Rodlie Ortiz Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.modernekklesia.com/2009/02/05/my-problem-with-pagan-christianity-book-review/#comment-3474 Sounds like you guys have a nice thing going, Dwayne. Sounds like you guys have a nice thing going, Dwayne.

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